Ease off, Troy. First, MacArthur was known for making wildly inaccurate casualty estimates, and he estimated one million American CASUALTIES, not DEAD, for Operation Olympic. BTW, Mac was out-generalled by Yamashita in the 1945 Phillipines campaign, which Mac repaid by having Yamashita executed.

Have you no sense of shame at the fact that the United States is the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons? And, let's put some scale into context: while the Japanese rape of Nanking was horrible, at an estimated 250,000 Chinese civilian dead, the US made up for that in its bombing of Dresden (German civilian casualties were also very high when USAAF forces targeted the German transportation net in March and April 1945), and the fire-bombing of Tokyo in March 1945, which killed an estmated 100,000 Japanese.

Is the fury of your response an unconscious expression of your own guilt, or lack of remorse?

Jeff,
No I have no shame we used nuclear weapons, It was necessary we had them we used them it ended the war. You are correct I have no remorse for what happened and I definitely have no guilt. The fury of my response is due to the fact that some of my best friends are veterans as well as active service military feeling guilt for the actions taken in defence of our country after we were attacked denigrates their service. Ask some of the last living veterans of WWII what they think of your comments.

Troy, my dad and I agreed to disagree a long tinme ago about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. WWII vets do not "own" discussion of the bombings, nor are their perspectives definitive or normative.

You just don't want to admit that it was the USSR's final offensive of the war, against the Japanese Kwantung Army in Manchuria, which tipped the scales and convinced the Japanese to surrender...

You should have listened to your father, from your comment it appears your father believes it was the right choice, maybe he was tired of seeing his friends or family die ask him sometime. I would say their perspective was pretty definitive. As far as the USSR's contribution, maybe, but I am also pretty sure the specter of more nuclear weapons raining down on Japan was a definite motivator as well..

Ah yes, yet again we see that yours is the only correct perspective, and that you fail to appreciate nuance, Troy. In case you didn't notice, my opposition to the nuclear bombings has softened: I still think it was wrong, and that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender, but the horrific costs of the Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns have to be remembered as well.

You also forget that Japanese junior officers attempted a coup the night before Hirohito's broadcast, and actually attacked the Imperial Palace in an attempt to seize the recording of the Emperor's address. Many Japanese army officers wanted to fight on, regardless of how many bombs were dropped.

Then there's the inconvenient fact that the US could have dropped maybe two more bombs in 1945: American industry could not produce fissile material the way it was cranking out P-51s or M-4s. My bottom line: the nuclear bombings targeted previously intact Japanese cities in order to demonstrate the power of fission weapons; tens of thousands of civilians were killed by a USAAF which had fought most of the war trying to avoid inflicting civilian casualties; the ONLY good outcome of the bombings was to educate the world about the horrors of radiation sickness and flash burns, effects which had not been anticipated; the end of the war was brought about by a number of factors, not just the bombings, but apologists for the bombings have to ignore those facts to salve their consciences.

Wow Jeff, I am glad we agree that mine is the only correct perspective. I would add that it appears your fathers perspective is correct as well. As far as your opposition on the use of nuclear weapons softening, what exactly does that nuance look like? Should we have just used a smaller bomb or maybe had it detonate at a higher altitude, what does a nuance look like exactly?

We may have only been able to drop two more bombs but the Japanese did not know that. So what you are telling me is that you have to ignore your own facts to salve your conscience? Not sure what your point is because I sure am not an apologist nor does my conscience bother me regarding dropping bombs on Japan. Yes there were a lot of factors that led to the end of the war and dropping nuclear weapons was one of them and probably the defining one.

"dropping nuclear weapons was one of them and probably the defining one."

GOTCHA! You have presented your interpretation of the history, Troy, and since you reached a conclusion before examining all of the evidence, of course you're going to justify the nuclear bombings.

And, you should know that the Soviet Union was the real target of the bombs, not Japan, since Truman knew the Japanese wanted to end the war, and the US did NOT impose unconditional surrender terms.

The US accepted the Japanese condition that Hirohito remain on the throne. If you knew the history of the Pacific War, you would have known that Hirohito was just as hated as Hitler and Mussolini, and Americans wanted him tried as a war criminal. Finally, Truman's decision to drop the bomb was informed by domestic political considerations: he didn't want the American people to discover the US had developed a nuclear weapon and NOT used it.

Troy, the war was over, Japan was looking to surrender, and the surrender would have happened without either bomb being dropped.

That is your interpretation of events. It still doesn't change the fact we dropped the bombs and Japan surrendered you can believe they were ready to surrender before the bombs were dropped I believe the dropping of the bombs was the impetus. Oh yes but again we see that yours is the only correct perspective ;)

So what is your point? War by definition is horrible. I don't disagree with her going on a peace tour, I think it is an honorable and good thing. I think nuclear weapons are scary weapons, but to feel guilt for being an American because we dropped nuclear weapons is just wrong. We did not start the war and to apologize for ending it the way we did dishonors all who fought and died protecting this country from Japan.

In other words, Troy, you want to scold Gin for not adhering to your standards of political correctness...

No I am scolding her for feeling guilty at being an American because of decisions made before she was born that she had no control over.

Bill expressed his condolences and regret, that is different than expressing guilt. If Michelle had said she regretted the necessity I would have had no problem. I am probably incorrect in my interpretation of the point she was trying to make, you are probably correct in the belief it was not so much guilt as regret. But that was not how she expressed it.

Maria, Most of the people who lived through those days are either very old or gone. People called that war as “three years and eight months.” Many people had no food; they ate rats, tree bark, roots – things that could be edible. I heard how my grandfather and father escaped from gun shots, etc. They had also said that the Nanking massacre was far worse, but I didn’t how bad it was until I read the book.

What Jeff Klinzman said was what I understood. The Japanese were losing the war. Even without dropping bomb, the war could end. I didn’t know the political part though. Now I learn. (I can't find a reply button to Jeff's entry.) War is horrible. Robert McNamara would talk about his mistake hoping people would not repeat it. Perhaps it eased his guilt.

Maria, I understood from my history professor that Japan was at the verge of surrender and the war could end without the A-bomb, but I thought I should look deeper after our discussion. I don't know how long it would take the war to end, but the casualty would certainly run as high, based on the Japanese honor spirit and ability to slaughter. A book “The Most Controversial Decision …” asks “Necessary, but is it right?” It suggested little attentions were paid to the aggression and brutal acts the Japanese had done in the Far East. As you said, it was horrible to weigh on the options.

Yes, they did cruel things such as detaining prisoners indefinitely in a prison with no transparent oversight, waterboarding, and humiliating prisoners... Oh wait that was us.

Maria, yes, I had visited Dachau too. For the Middle East, I found it's hard to follow their disputes over the years since West Bank. The elderly Chinese that I talked to, they did not seek revenge or curse the Japanese, they only talked about how horrible at that time and how lucky to be alive. I once had a Japanese friend. I said "once" because we kept in touch for about ten years until I asked her how she felt about the Japanese government deleting history from history text book, Yes, peace is a precious thing, let's hope

Maria, I could not imagine. That;s too much for a child. I hope you were not traumatized.