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Parents Talk: More Sidewalk Chalk Woes

Another case of fun haters vs. sidewalk chalk rears its ugly head in this week's Parents Talk.

 

Here we go again.

In early July, we told you about one Denver, Colo. neighborhood considering a ban on sidewalk chalk. Association members claimed that in shared spaces or common areas, "anything that offends, disturbs or interferes with the peaceful enjoyment isn’t allowed." That included chalk drawings.

Then, last week, a Richmond, Va. mother was ordered to serve 50 hours of community service for allowing her 4 year-old daughter to make chalk drawings on rocks in a city park.

Susan Mortensen, 29, was sentenced to community service in the park system for the indiscretion. The ticketing officer claims, in addition to the act of vandalism, Mortensen had an attitude and used curse words during the confrontation.

What do you think? Did Richmond law enforcement go to far in requiring Susan Mortensen to do 50 hours of community service for her daughter's actions? Tell us in the comments.

Related Topics: Parents Talk, Sidewalk Chalk, and Susan Mortensen

David Leonard

9:01 am on Monday, August 6, 2012

Kids don't draw on sidewalks; chalk does.

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Troy Murphy

9:10 am on Monday, August 6, 2012

Sounds to me more like the mother had an attitude than anything to do with chalk. Cop probably told her to not let her kid draw with chalk on the landscaping and she took an attitude.

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Troy Murphy

11:55 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

So she ended up in jail and doing public service for her actions. Probably a well deserved contribution to cleaning up her attitude.

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Matthew Georges

12:03 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Attitude is not and should not be a jailable offense.

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Troy Murphy

12:20 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Maybe not in a perfect world. Since we don't live in a perfect world I have found when dealing with people who have the ability to charge you with numerous crimes that I may not be aware of, it behooves me to be as polite and calm as possible. Not to mention the fact that with our government has passed so many laws that there is no way to be aware of all of them.

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Matthew Georges

8:20 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

I agree, in a perfect world, police would respect citizens more, and would spend their tax payer funded time catching real criminals.

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Karl

10:05 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Attitude may not be a 'jailable offense', but it's amazing how speaking to a police officer as-if you yourself are a mature, stable person can make the whole process go much smoother. In most circumstances if a police officer is speaking to you, you most likely did something to cause it. Or someone else perceived you as doing something that warranted the police talking to you.

Watching the TV program COPS, and having listened to a police scanner in the past, I can tell you that I couldn’t do their job. The level of stupidity, ignorance and disrespect they have to deal with would push me over the edge.

I don’t doubt for one second this woman was approached, ASKED to have her kid stop writing on the rocks, and she pulled an attitude about it being rocks, and about it being a park. And I’d wager she got lippy about the officer ‘having nothing better to do’. If she can’t act like a reasonable person, she can suffer the consequences. Perhaps someone should fine her parents for not raising her properly.

David Leonard

2:48 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

I was attempting sarcasm, Troy, but as Karl may have noticed before he replied, I reversed what should have been the order of chalk and kids. I'm blamming my laspse on being short one cup of coffee.

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Troy Murphy

11:52 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

Sarcasm about what you were exactly right.

EMerical

4:26 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012

While allowing and encouraging our children to express themselves is a good thing, part of our responsibility is to teach them where to express themselves. If parents allow their children to draw on public or private property with chalk when they are under their direction, they will grow to think that it is okay to express themselves in other ways on the property of others, too. It is likely that she could have found a place to encourage such artistic expression on her own property.
Parents have to think through the consequences of their actions and those of their children. The chalk is picked up on the shoes of pedestrians and mars the floors and carpets of local residents and businesses which will be cleaned at their cost. The lesson her child learns is that he/she can draw or design where ever he/she chooses. Today the medium is chalk, but what will be used tomorrow? Part of the lesson is to encourage the child's expression but also the appropriateness of the locale. The parent is responsible for taking into account the big picture and the consequences of the choices of the minor.

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Heath Hyder

8:07 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

The cop did not give her 50 hours of community service, the judge did.....the cop just wrote a ticket. And if she started using curse words at a police officer she should be happy with the 50 hours and thankful she didn't get a night in jail. There is no law against attitude as someone wrote, but there are rules governing conduct in public that give law enforcement power to deal with unruly citizens. Besides if a judge saw fit to give her 50 hours then there is probably more to the story and/or her behaviour than we know. Maybe even prior brushes with the law.

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Clarence Johnson

12:45 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

I think it's sad that you feel that we're "lucky" to have police not throw us in jail over words.

I think it's very indicative of a societal attitude that somehow police are above us or somehow their feelings are worth protecting with jail time.

If anything, police should be trained to shrug off things like that, in the interest of not furthering a confrontation.

Jim Zupan

5:05 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Freedom of speech should cover foul language...even when dealing with a police officer sworn to up hold the Constitution that gives us our freedom of speech.

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Matthew Georges

5:09 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

+1
I'd add "especially", instead of "even."

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Troy Murphy

1:28 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

I am all for free speech, I just don't believe verbally assaulting anyone is covered as protected speech. As a matter of fact assault is illegal in most states.

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Matthew Georges

1:36 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

You can believe whatever you want Troy, the fact is curse words are protected speech, and assault is only criminal if it involves a specific threat of violence.

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Troy Murphy

7:03 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

True, but that is what a judge and jury are for, all a police officer does is write citations and arrest you, your guilt is determined by someone else.

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Matthew Georges

9:44 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

Exactly, but she wasn't cited for her speech or attitude towards the officer, but for the chalking.

Heath Hyder

1:00 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

Police officers are doing their job, and I believe that nobody should have to deal with someone cursing them regardless of whether they are a cop or a custodian. Free speech doesn't mean you are free to harass police officers or custodians. Cops are not "above" anyone but they are charged with upholding and enforcing the law....and if you are breaking a law regardless of how trivial you think it may be why take it out on the cop? He didn't make that law. You want free speech protected? Then pay attention to the lawmakers!!! Go to council meetings, write your congressman, and take the time to truely research a candidate before voting!!!

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Anne Tanner

8:53 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012

As a society, Americans are all about punishment, from the death penalty on down. But I do disagree with the judge in this case. The woman deserved some punishment for allowing the action and cursing the police officer. But if she's raising the child by herself (a pretty good guess), that's 50 hours of child care to arrange--an enormous amount of money for this charge. It seems to me that somewhere along the line, a calm conversation with the mother might have sufficed.

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Chris Liebig

1:39 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012

The reason she was not charged with using curse words or giving attitude is that there is no law against those acts -- nor could there be, constitutionally.

If there's a law against letting kids draw with chalk on rocks at a park, that's just a stupid law, not an unconstitutional one. But if the officer charged her with that to retaliate against her for "giving attitude," then the officer violated the constitution and abused his power. It's perfectly understandable to have sympathy for police and the job they do, but that can't possibly be an excuse for illegal abuses of power.

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Matthew Georges

9:19 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012

that's because there are laws regarding ADVERTISEMENT. Google isn't the same thing as doing good research Karl.

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Matthew Georges

11:26 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012

Says the guy who uses google for all of his research. Cite your sources. Read those articles. Get a life.

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Matthew Georges

7:07 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012

How do I look foolish? You are the one claiming swearing is against the law, and a jailable offense. You also can't seem to be bothered by going to a reputable site like findlaw.com, to do your legal research, instead using google. Then you can't be bothered to post which articles you supposedly read, so that we can also read them and see where you are getting your foolish knowledge. So far your only source is that one time 25 years ago when you saw a cop threaten someone. Here's news: cops can threaten you with whatever they want! It doesn't necessarily mean they are backed up by the law!

By the way, I did research swearing in public. Some municipalities do indeed have these archaic laws on the books, but guess what? Most of them are being challenged on their constitutionality, haven't been used in years or are not jailable offenses, simply a civil penalty, like a parking ticket.

Thanks for calling me foolish Karl.
P.S. You don't start a paragraph with "And."

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Jack F

7:35 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012

So I can use the "N" word because it is protected speech. I dare not spell it or Melanie will sanction my account again. Freedom of speech was to keep political debate free of sanction... Not to allow rude disrespectful trash freedom to verbally asalt people even if they are employed with our taxes. It was meant to protect this type of behavior against the fools elected to be nothing but slimy politicians. Now, Mathew, let's show the world our freedom of speech and say the "N" word together or can you just say hypocrite?????

Matthew Georges

7:55 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012

What are you trying to say Jac? That there are words we shouldn't say or that there are words that are illegal? (See one question mark still gets the point across) Saying the "N" word is not illegal, immoral yes, but definitely protected speech by our constitution.

Furthermore, this started as a discussion over sidewalk chalk, just to bring everyone back on topic here. Washable, non toxic chalk.

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Jack F

8:57 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012

On others property it is vandalism or graffiti, tagging. If you wrote the "N" word in washable chalk then it would be hate speech and a hate crime. So yes I am saying that, in our brave new politely correct world, there are illegal words. But only illegal if you are a straight white Christian. What say you Matt???????

Robert E

3:24 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012

Matthew swearing in public is considered disorderly conduct and is a jailable offence.

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Matthew Georges

10:23 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012

Robert, where is that true? Not federally that's for sure. Show me proof of someone who has been arrested simply for swearing in public.

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Robert E

2:22 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

Matthew go down to your local police station walk into the lobby and start swearing and let us know how that turns out.

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Robert E

2:36 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUWi-91yY4c
"It took police nearly ten minutes to arrest a man for "swearing in a park," even though that is considered free speech, according to a couple of fairly recent court cases.
The incident occurred in Hidden Beach in Minneapolis, which was once a renowned nude beach and is still is known for it's laid-back and unpretentious party atmosphere.
However, park police apparently do not tolerate swearing, which prompted them to attempt to arrest the man in the above video.
The foul-mouthed man did not want to be arrested, so he grabbed his cooler and attempted to walk away with a pair of cops blocking his path.
At one point, the two cops wrestled the man to the ground, but the man still managed to get back on his feet and attempt to walk away.
So after more cops are called to the scene, three cops manage to control him.

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Robert E

2:40 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

Massachusetts state law does allow towns to enforce local laws that give police the power to arrest anyone who "addresses another person with profane or obscene language" in a public place. General Laws: CHAPTER 272, Section 59

Matthew Georges

7:37 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

Follow up, was he convicted? The ACLU would have a field day with this case.

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Robert E

3:09 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012

Matthew you never said anything about conviction you had said they could not arrest you for swearing in public not could the get a conviction big difference I said the could arrest you.

Matthew Georges

7:38 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

Also, this doesn't seem outrageous to you as an American?

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Jim Zupan

10:35 am on Monday, August 20, 2012

What seems outrageous to me, is the people that are willing to just let there freedoms go over political correctness, or some other silly reason. You can most definitely use curse words without assaulting anyone. N word, F word, what difference does it make. We don't use those words here, because we all agreed to the rules of the site. When it come to the legality of it, Saying what you think should never be against any law. Just keep giving up your freedoms, and see where "we the people" end up.

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Robert E

3:12 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012

Jim unfortunately people in this country have been giving up their right ever sense 9-11 for a feeling of security amd we are no safer now then we were then.

Jack F

6:51 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012

Since when does vandalism become free speech. If a kid vandalized my property and I caught him and gave him a good old fashioned spanking they would arrest me. So now we jail kids parents for sidewalk chaulk because we have taken the rights of parents to discipline the kid. Political correct backfire but it encourages to give power to the state to raise our kids. The sheep just keep drinking the cool aid.

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